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DfE Digital, Data and Technology is part of the Department for Education. We aim to deliver world-class services that improve the outcomes of children and learners in education and care. This podcast series shines a light on the human stories behind our digital and technology projects. You’ll hear about how we build and run our services, their impact, and the lessons learnt along the way. You’ll also get an insight into the people who work here and the culture we’re building.
Episodes
Monday Jul 25, 2022
A diary of a successful job candidate
Monday Jul 25, 2022
Monday Jul 25, 2022
In this short episode, we hear from Tom Adams, Head of user research, about the last time he interviewed for a Civil Service role.
Tom talks about how he prepares for job interviews, how he harnesses his nerves, and how recruitment is different in the public and private sector. So a great listen if you’re thinking about joining the Civil Service.
Transcription
[intro music plays]
Adaobi Ifeachor
Hello. Welcome to Think digital, act human. A podcast from the Department for Education where we tell the everyday stories of digital specialists working on extraordinary projects. This episode is for all my job hunters out there. If you're preparing for an interview and you're feeling a bit nervous. If you've read all the advice on the Internet and it's still not really kind of clicked with you, this is your episode. It's kind of like a diary of a successful candidate. We found someone at the DfE who applied for a digital job and he was successful. So he's going to talk to us about his tips, his tricks, what he did to prepare and what he did afterwards, frankly. So we hope that you'll like it. Enjoy.
Tom Adams
My name is Tom Adams. I am the Head of user research at Department for Education. The last role that I actually interviewed for was for lead user researcher at Department for Education, and that was just before the pandemic. So to prepare for the interview. This is the third civil service interview that I've done, I think. And so actually I'd had a bit of practice by that point preparing for civil service interviews. So what I did was I really focussed in on the job description and what I call the essential criteria in the job description. And I made sure I had a range of examples that I could talk about from that job description. And I used something called the STAR format, which you can go and read about online to structure. But I basically just made sure I had a lot of examples to talk about. I am somebody who does, who can wing it and can just sort chat around, but I know that if I start off with some quite solid examples, wherever the, wherever that goes and whatever kind of follow up questions I had, I was reasonably confident that I'd be able to be able to cover them and be able to cover those essential criteria.
Tom Adams
So one thing I like to do when I go into those is sort of feel confident in myself. So this sounds really odd, but what I did for a previous interview was I went and bought a new pair of jeans that morning, and so I was wearing a brand new pair of jeans when I went into that interview and you just sort of feel a bit smarter and you know, and sort of, I don't know, I think part of it might be thinking about something other than the interview, because otherwise I find I might obsess on the details before I'll go in there. But, you know, it's feeling confident in myself as I go in there and also making sure that I'm not just obsessing over every single possible minute before I go in there about that interview.
Tom Adams
I felt quite confident going into this interview because I knew that I could do the job and I knew that I had solid examples to talk about. I also already knew a couple of people who were working in Department for Education, in user research roles. So I had a good idea of the community. I knew I managed to get a good idea from talking to them of the kind of thing that was valued here at Department for Education, which helped me choose some of the things I was going to talk about in the potential answers I might talk about so I did feel quite confident, like, quietly confident with this one. Also, when you go into an interview, you never know. So there's always nerves. So you might hundred percent know that you're really great, but somebody else might go in who's even better than you. So you're still a bit nervous. But I try and get, I try not to have those nerves when I go into interviews and just do the best that I can. And if somebody is better than me, fine. But as long as I can come out and feel like I've done the best job. I find nerves can be quite useful going into interviews, although only to an extent. One thing I used to do, although since I got middle aged and started getting fat, I do this less. But I used to buy some sweets before I went into like a big meeting or an interview or anything like that. I’d just get like a packet of wine gums and like eat a packet of wine gums and have that sugar burst before I went in there. Or I might have a coffee, but I had to be really careful that I don't have too much sugar or too much coffee because then that puts like too much of an edge on the nerves. But I think nerves, nerves aren't a bad thing. I think if you're not nervous going into something that might mean that you're not, you know, that you're missing something. Two things that I always do in interviews now that I've learnt over 20 years of different jobs and going for interviews, I always take in notes because my mind goes blank sometimes. So I might have five amazing examples that I can give. But if I can't remember at the time, then then what's what's the point? So I take in basic notes. I don't, I don't write things out for me to read out, but I take in prompts for me to remember the right examples to tell. And I know having been an interviewer as well as sitting on interview panels, I like it when people bring in notes. You know, you're not going to be judged. I know that I'm not going to be judged poorly for bringing in notes, it shows that someone's prepared and thinking about things. So I definitely write down my examples and take them in and use them as prompts for when I'm giving answers. And the second thing that I always try and do in interviews is - at the end of my answer, so I've given my example, I've answered the question I will ask the interview panel; 'did that answer your question? Is there anything else that you'd like to hear from me?' And that allows you know, it's a bit sneaky in a way, because it allows them a few minutes to think about other things they can ask me, which allows me to be able to give the best answer. You know, they will always ask follow up questions. But this means they're actually going and having an opportunity to consider those follow up questions a little bit more. I have found that that has kind of slightly got a slightly surprised response from a couple of panels, a couple of job interviews. And it can give me a second chance sometimes if my first answer hasn't quite answered what the panel are looking for. It gives me a second chance to give a different example sometimes. So it's a bit sneaky, but I find that that has definitely worked.
Tom Adams
After the interview, I genuinely don't remember what I did. Probably what I did was, went home and did bedtimes and read stories and didn't think about it afterwards. It's kind of the, is the worst time you know, you've done everything you can and, you know, you just have to wait. And with particularly civil service interviews, you might have to wait for a couple of weeks before you hear because that's just how the process works. And it is tough. You are always thinking about it and thinking of the different things you could have said and you know, the missed opportunities. But you just have to kind of get on with it afterwards and carry on, life goes on.
Tom Adams
So I had quite a long private sector career before I came into Civil Service, and one of the things that I found very surprising coming into service were how different the interview process is. So in in private sector, I was used to going to two or three rounds of interview and whittling down from lots of lots of interviews down to the last two and and having different, you might have questions, like interview questions in one interview and then you go back for another one and you're doing a presentation in the Civil Service. So I found it really quite a culture shock for me that everything is done in one and you're in there in an hour when you're out. And it felt, it felt quite scary the first couple of times I did that because I felt like I didn't have time in an hour to really get everything across that I needed to. I think there is quite a lot of pressure on that, but I think the way that I've dealt with it subsequently is just think, well, what can I do? What can I say in the answer and really think about those potential answers beforehand. And what we certainly do in the Civil Service, which I didn't find in public sector, was we kind of tell you in the job applications what what we're looking for in in that job. So I could look at the job spec for my job and understand the examples that I would need to give. So as long as as long as I really started picking apart that job and that look, that role description, I could plan the kind of answers that I would need to take in that interview. And I could be confident that I was taking everything I needed to in there in a way that I couldn't do in the private sector. So I think if you're coming from private sector, my experience was definitely you will find it a culture shock coming into that interview but there are there are advantages to it because you can really tailor your answers based on that job description. I would certainly advise if you've got questions, ask them. And I know at the Department for Education, you've got a really good recruitment team who will make sure that the right people get those questions and will respond to those questions. So there's always an opportunity here at DfE for you to clarify what a panel might be looking for from you and clarify more about the role. So, so definitely, we are a place where you can come and ask questions before you come into that interview.
Adaobi Ifeachor
So that was Tom Adams, Head User Researcher at the DfE talking about how he made it into DfE digital. And that is one view of the interview process that is a successful candidate's view. But of course, there's the other side of the table. And next episode, myself and a special guest are going to be talking about what it's like to sit as panellists, interviewing people. What we're looking for, what we're expecting and what we kind of think about when we're going through the whole process. We'll reveal everything. We're pulling back the curtain, people. So we do hope that you'll join us. Until then, you can find out all about us on Twitter @DfE_DigitalTech. And of course, you can Google our blog, which is DfE Digital blog. Thanks again to Tom Adams and thanks to you dear listener. See you next time. Bye.
[outro music plays]
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